RIDEGURU
I've been looking into the driver and rider friendly policy of Juno in New York, and I see many features that looks attractive. Especially for the surge pricing with a cap looks attractive, since I don't have to worry about paying more than expected. Also, I've been aware of the cut rate that ridehailing company take from drivers are cheaper for Juno, which means drivers will earn more for every ride. When there's no surge, I guess I pay a similar or same price, (comparing to Uber/or lyft) but since the driver profits more, I have an anticipation that the driver will normally provide a better service. These factors alone looks like a powerful advantage of Juno...
However, Juno market share doesn't seem to increase compared to Uber or Lyft.
What could be a reason for this? (Obvious answer must be driver supply imbalance... but, drivers are obviously not bound/or restricted to utilize other services/ or switch ehailing service, I'd think it all depends on the attractivness...)
Same question... in a different angle: what is Uber doing better? Or where does Juno need to improve?
Appriciate comments...
Why isn't Juno dominating?
Posted 6 years, 2 months ago
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KM LEE (KM)
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Comments
I thought Juno was doing pretty well? They are the ones who offer equity to all drivers, right? (and low commission) I had a driver in Jersey City rave about them. ...except that I had requested an UberSUV.
Equity share (of 50%) to drivers by 2026 was indeed a sweet offer, but the problem is that Juno was bought out by Gett, and now they are scrapping the equity share plan!!! (Shocking!)
What happened to the shares that were given out? Did the drivers see a cash out?
News artcles say they were offered a small cash out. Articles also say some drivers are suing.
Do you have the link?
Aren't there Juno drivers on this forum? Come on
Ask and you shall receive. I drove for Juno and had several thousand share unit, which in hindsight really meant nothing. Most of us got like $0.02 for a share, and I ended up getting $100 and change.
I don't know how accurate this is, but take a look
"That’s not even a tenth of the $0.20 share price Juno advertised to drivers in recruiting materials last summer. Two other contracts seen by Quartz offered $100 payments for 1,604 and 3,580 shares respectively, or 2.8 cents and 6.2 cents per share, suggesting that there may have been a minimum payment of $100."
https://qz.com/969601/juno-ubers-driver-friendly-competitor-sold-to-gett-for-200-million-but-left-little-for-its-drivers/
This guy got $200-300.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/priya/drivers-in-nyc-feel-cheated-by-juno-which-promised-to-save
the graph says gett is smaller. and nothing about their trend I trust.
They have a richer parent. In Israel or UK or something.
I thought that was Russia?
Or was that Fasten that's owned by the Russians? I don't care enough to google.
I didn't realize when they were bought out that this mean they were getting rid of the driver equity plan! interesting.
Looking at everyone else's reply....this is what I think. I don't think it's a problem with Juno. I think people speak highly of it, drivers are on board, and financials for drivers and riders are favorable.
I think their challenge is due to Uber's commanding market share. They have both the supply (drivers) and demand (riders). The majority of the drivers already have Uber on their phones, and while they may like and sign up for Juno, they will continue to work for the company that gives them the work.
For riders, I think they are happy as long as the ride shows up. To many, it's just another car service that comes and picks them up. So, as long as Uber is working, they may not look elsewhere. Perhaps other factors like prices and length of wait time (i.e. driver availability) may come into play, but it's difficult to beat Uber on those fronts.
bottom line is rideshares are a commodity. That's juno's problem. And everyone's problem. Uber just has a huge first mover advantage.
I think people do care about the happiness of drivers, level of service, etc.
and drivers would rather keep a larger portion of the fare, so they make more money through Juno, right?
Yeah, but the problem is that all drivers are the same people...
Right. zero loyalty. no exclusivity at all. what a nightmare for a business that costs so much to acquire new users.
Maybe they all need to work on having a "sticky factor." Frequent Flyer program, discount on volume, unlocking statuses, etc.
I live in NYC and I take rideshares often. I have been told by the UberBlack drivers more than once that they carry both Uber and Juno phones with them at all times. They told me that they focus on Uber but they use Juno as a backup and insurance, in order to extend their coverage areas/times and overall increase the number of requests. (As an example, I think one guy told me that he picks and chooses ones that give him more surges.)
Having a cap on the surge is comforting to the prospective customers, but it may repel surge-hungry drivers? Maybe?
Fasten is the challenger in Boston, and I saw on their website admitting that they know all their "drivers have Uber and Lyft installed on their phones." They followed it up by saying, "Drivers. Please do NOT accept Fasten rides while you are on your rides."
That company is horrible. I heard the executive team is a gigantic douche.
Check out the internal comments. Racists CEO and all. https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Fasten-Reviews-E970147.htm
Two thoughts:
1. Uber has a massive marketing budget, everyone knows Uber from their endless promotions, billboards, radio ads, etc. For most people ridesharing and Uber are just one in the same like Kleenex is for tissues. This is going to be the hardest hurdle for any new company who enters the market. Uber already has such a presence, that even if a company offers cheaper rides, better pay, etc, it won't matter as long as Uber is still the company in the people's ear. Uber has made themselves familiar to all through their expansive marketing, so it feels like the natural (and in a way "safe") choice when someone is looking for a ride.
2. As has been mentioned, Uber has a huge driver base which allows them to source rides to passengers with minimal wait time. To compete, Juno would need a large driver base as well however, getting a large driver base is like the chicken and egg scenario. Drivers want to work for the companies who will deliver them a lot of rides so they have…
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Two thoughts:
1. Uber has a massive marketing budget, everyone knows Uber from their endless promotions, billboards, radio ads, etc. For most people ridesharing and Uber are just one in the same like Kleenex is for tissues. This is going to be the hardest hurdle for any new company who enters the market. Uber already has such a presence, that even if a company offers cheaper rides, better pay, etc, it won't matter as long as Uber is still the company in the people's ear. Uber has made themselves familiar to all through their expansive marketing, so it feels like the natural (and in a way "safe") choice when someone is looking for a ride.
2. As has been mentioned, Uber has a huge driver base which allows them to source rides to passengers with minimal wait time. To compete, Juno would need a large driver base as well however, getting a large driver base is like the chicken and egg scenario. Drivers want to work for the companies who will deliver them a lot of rides so they have minimal idle time and riders want to ride with the companies who have many drivers so they have minimal wait time. If you get a lot of drivers to convert over before riders have converted then the drivers will be disappointed in the number of ride requests they are receiving and will most likely jump ship. Vice versa with the riders, if you get a lot of riders interested but everytime they go to hail a car they have to wiat for 20 minutes they will also choose to try a different company.
In terms of driver's signing up, it won't matter too much to a driver that they are making a higher percentage of every fare if they only get half the requests! There is also a "switching cost" for drivers, it may seem silly, but people are generally lazy and the benefits of switching have to be so great that drivers will finally think "ok this is worth it, I'm going to not watch GOT tonight and will finally submit my information to Juno and learn their ridesharing platform so I can drive for them instead of for Uber (which I already know and am confortable with).
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Insightful point. So it’s not just commanding supply volume but a tightly correlated demand working in concert; refering to ur chicken & egg analogy.
How do these companies that claim to treat their drivers right by paying them more stay competitive with their rates? Uber is already losing money and subsidizing every ride. If Juno or Fasten or whatever pays the drivers more, how do they afford it? Or are they losing even more on each ride?
I don't live in NYC and haven't tried Juno. One advantage uber usually has everywhere is more drivers on the road. More availability, less waiting. Does Juno have a lot of drivers? Comparable to Uber?
Less drivers are the biggest difference, as you point out.
But, my initial curiosity was,, with amazing 'driver first' programs wouldn't drivers tend to lean towards Juno more often? (Asuming drivers usually use both apps.) I still see Uber, lyft dominating...
Maybe because brand loyalty? Is there really such a thing?....
Let's assume that there are more and more drivers using Juno (for reasons you gave). the question is whether that turns into more ridership. Do consumers care if the drivers are happier? ...or do they really not care that much? Perhaps they want incentives on their own? I don't know the answer to that. I would like to think I care about the livelihood of drivers, but at the end of the day, I think most people lean on what directly affects them like wait time, price, etc.. again, I am not sure.
Brand loyalty? I don't think that exists in this industry. Drivers just want more fares and make money. Riders just want to get from point A to point B. I think there is consideration for safety and quality of service, but I feel like convenience outweighs everything else.
People just use whatever they are used to. It's hard to get people to change.
I wonder this about companies like fasten too. Cheaper, no surge pricing, they should take off.
Fasten takes only $1 from each ride. There is NO WAY they are making any money. What kind of business model is that?
I can say the same about Juno, right? If they only take 10% instead of 20~26% that Uber takes, and Uber is massively losing money, how does Juno make any money?
Reason why Uber is loosing money in terms of profitablity (I call it war chest-cash burning) is because they subsidise riders with promos...
This is a measure to expand the awareness of ridehailing itself... at least to a certain extend.
Whence they takeaway the subsidies, some customers will show stickiness and still use the service, while others may be less inclined to use ridehailing without the promos(which is practically cash!).
So losses on behalf of big ridesharing cos. like Uber can be viewed as an investment for expanding the market itself..
In short, they will time the market and eventually takeaway most of the subsidies and earn a fortune later on...
As for Juno, they probably won't have lots of war chest like Uber, so they won't have such a big loss on their P&L,
but they can play the econosystem, by penetrating Uber's market by tailoring there pricing system to look more attractive to riders~!
Anyhow, Juno's loss doesn't necessarily have to be as big as the major player.
This is just my opinion...
You are right. I can't imagine anyone losing as much as Uber, as they invest in the likes of UberElevate and Autonomous Vehicles.
They are already bringing their promos WAY down. Used to be $25 off for every person you referred and now it is $5. I also noticed that if you had $25 promos in your queue to be used and then because of their price change got a few $5 promos, they would make it so that you have to use the $5 promos first before you can get back to your $25 promo. IMO that incentivizes me to not refer new riders for a period of time till I can use my larger promo amounts first. Just interesting, seems like they are trying to cut back on the promo spending.
Yeah, I agree, there is no question there is a huge price war going on in this industry. Big time. Predatory pricing. Uber is losing money but they have a long runway and are betting they can hold on longer.
Maybe the only losers are the investors in all of these companies... they are plowing through cash like drunken sailors.
I should say, the drivers are losing out too. Driving for rideshares is not lucrative like it was 4-5 years ago.
Good point. Maybe it's a big plot; industry evolving to an era of robotaxis.
You're right that they can't be making money, but they're not at a point where they're trying to make money. They're trying to get big. Money comes later through volume. My point is just that they should be more popular at this point.
Maybe this is why...
"Drivers Suing Juno for Securities Fraud!"
What the heck is Juno.
LOL Actually, this may tell a tale. People don't know Juno yet. Maybe they have never heard of it. Maybe they have, but Uber works just fine.