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Can I ask my Uber driver to NOT record me with his webcam? If I do not want to be recorded, shouldn't I be able to request that?

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NancyStride
 Posted 7 months, 4 weeks ago

Even calling into a customer service call (at a bank or whatever), we have the choice of asking not to be recorded.  What about with rideshares like Uber and Lyft?

I understand that the car is a private property, and drivers have the rights to record inside their cabin.  However, do I have the right to not be recorded upon request? 

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    fpressly
    4067 Rider Driver
     7 months ago  (edited 6 months ago)

    If you are camera shy, I think you are out of luck on this one. There is no doubt we are entitled to some expectations of privacy; however, this is a public place (just like on a subway or public bus). The driver is not recording YOU. The driver is in fact recording a space. The fact that you move into that space does not entitle you to change that space or the fact that it is being recorded. You entering that space willingly infers consent, particularly if the camera is clearly visible or signs clearly announce the video/audio recording of the space. The purpose of the recording is to document the space as to who entered it, what they did and what happened to them as a result. You have the right to not be recorded and can stop that at any time by leaving the space (canceling the ride and getting out of the car). It is kind of like a surveillance at the back door of a building. If you walk by on the sidewalk into the field of vision of the camera, do you have the right to tell the o...

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    If you are camera shy, I think you are out of luck on this one. There is no doubt we are entitled to some expectations of privacy; however, this is a public place (just like on a subway or public bus). The driver is not recording YOU. The driver is in fact recording a space. The fact that you move into that space does not entitle you to change that space or the fact that it is being recorded. You entering that space willingly infers consent, particularly if the camera is clearly visible or signs clearly announce the video/audio recording of the space. The purpose of the recording is to document the space as to who entered it, what they did and what happened to them as a result. You have the right to not be recorded and can stop that at any time by leaving the space (canceling the ride and getting out of the car). It is kind of like a surveillance at the back door of a building. If you walk by on the sidewalk into the field of vision of the camera, do you have the right to tell the owner of the building to turn off the camera because you don't want to be recorded. Nah. I don't think so. The purpose of the documenting video is to show the fact that you were there.

    The driver has the absolute right to video the space. Not only from a liability standpoint but also to provide security and for the protection of the driver and rider. No rights you have in this arena supersede that.

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      NancyStride
       7 months ago

      Thank you for the response.  Yes, I understand that drivers have rights to record their space. I was curious if there was a way to request not to be recorded, but I guess that would defeat the purpose.  If that were the case, all crooks will ask that the camera be turned off before attacking and/or robbing the driver, huh?  

      Anonymousity is pretty much gone riding a taxi, but I do consider that as a good thing, not a bad thing.  I am not doing anything, say like cheating on a wife, and I suppose for one I shouldn't worry that my trips are being documented and for two that I am being recorded.  

      I wonder what celebrities do.

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        EmanuelClarke
         4 months ago

        A lot of drivers will respect your wishes but remember that can cause the driver to have you removed from their property. The driver most likely will just pull over in a safe area and ask you respectfully to leave. A vehicle is considered someone's private property and being inside of a vehicle and refusing to leave in many jurisdictions can be considered trespassing. Oftentimes these misunderstandings can be avoided by explaining what your privacy policy is. For example I had one guest you wanted me to do it but I didn't have to end the trip. I told her that I am out here doing ride-sharing and I'm pretty much by myself. This is for your Safety and Security as well as everybody else's. I told her the footage is kept private unless an incident comes up to where I have to turn it over to the Rideshare company, appropriate regulatory bodies, law enforcement, or to any appropriate individual if a court proceeding happens. Other than that it's confidential and it&#39...

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        A lot of drivers will respect your wishes but remember that can cause the driver to have you removed from their property. The driver most likely will just pull over in a safe area and ask you respectfully to leave. A vehicle is considered someone's private property and being inside of a vehicle and refusing to leave in many jurisdictions can be considered trespassing. Oftentimes these misunderstandings can be avoided by explaining what your privacy policy is. For example I had one guest you wanted me to do it but I didn't have to end the trip. I told her that I am out here doing ride-sharing and I'm pretty much by myself. This is for your Safety and Security as well as everybody else's. I told her the footage is kept private unless an incident comes up to where I have to turn it over to the Rideshare company, appropriate regulatory bodies, law enforcement, or to any appropriate individual if a court proceeding happens. Other than that it's confidential and it's on a loop and as long as there's no problem the footage will be recorded over. I haven't had someone be uncomfortable but the one who was I was able to calm them down and they were actually very apologetic and they understood my position. 

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          JanMoran
           3 months ago

          I agree with everything you mentioned, but this reminds me of the critical difference between rideshare services and public transportation, i.e. the fact that the rideshare vehicles are private properties and public transportation vehicles (like buses and trains) are NOT.  Plus the latter cannot deny service.

          The interesting thing is that you can still be recorded while on a bus or a train because, ironically, you are in a public space and anyone can record you (as you have no expectation of privacy).

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    RedANT
    852 Driver
     7 months ago

    In some states "consent" is required from both parties.  In other states only one party (the driver) needs to consent to record legally. 

    For me, I post a sign "Security cameras are in use for the protection of all and to prevent fraud"  By entering my vehicle, one consents to be recorded.  If a rider says that they don't consent, I'll immediately kick them from my vehicle and comment to Uber/Lyft that I did so for safety issues. 

    I don't know the people in my cars.  My safety isn't worth the risk. 

    Show Hide  7 Replies
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      cj50
      Rider Driver
       7 months ago  (edited 7 months ago)

      I've only had one rider complain about being recorded. Even after I explained that it was fr their safety as well as mine, they objected to being recorded. I immediately pulled over to the side of the road and said that he should get another ride as I was not going to turn off the camera. He decided to finish the ride but then complained to Uber. I told Uber what had happened and told them I had him recorded accepting the ride even though he would be recorded, but they didn't care. I said, OK, but I would continue to record all future rides. That was a year ago and I'm still driving and recording!

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        LG-PA
        775 Driver
         7 months ago

        I use to have my dashcam screen on recording through windshield and through the interior. This was often a conversation piece in itself, later however I enabled a screensaver so now 99% of passengers do not even notice the camera, however if anyone asked me to stop recording I too would offer them to get out and look for alternate method to contiune their journey

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      brett
      Rider
       7 months ago

      Where do you post the sign? Shouldn't someone just claim that they didn't see the sign?

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        LG-PA
        775 Driver
         7 months ago

        Hi, I drive primarily in PA and it is a two party consent state. Some say make a lael and place it on the inside of the sunvisor next to airbag warning. However, if your DashCam is in plain view you are not secretly recording. Actually found this article here:

        https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a32124/the-surprising-legal-ramifications-of-having-a-dash-cam-in-your-car/

        Where it states:

        While most people get their dash cams so they record the view through their windshield, dash cams often record audio from inside the passenger compartment as well. In Michigan [Two-Party Consent State], courts have ruled that a person can record a conversation to which they are a party regardless of the other parties to the conversation knowing or giving consent in advance. So, if you have a dash cam in your own car and it is recording while you drive, you have no problem since you are a "party" to any conversation going on in your car.

        ---

        If you say "hello" to the passenger, you are a party to the conversation:)

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        RedANT
        852 Driver
         7 months ago  (edited 7 months ago)

        I mount a Google Nexus 7 tablet on the back of the passenger headrest, and use it to display an illuminated sign that's right in front of the passengers face. If they know I'm recording, it's because they saw the sign.  Recording from the tablet is looped (6hrs @ 720p) so I get a clear record of the back seat, and in tandem I also record the entire cabin from the 10" Galaxy Tab that I use for navigation.  If people ask where the dashcam is, I tell em' it's hidden for security reasons.  They've always agreed that that's a smart idea. 

         photo SampleInCarMessaging.jpg

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          brett
          Rider
           7 months ago

          Great sign, did you make it? Have you found the camera footage to come in handy?

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    ippei
    1196 Driver Rider Guru
     7 months ago

    The answer depends on the state actually.  This is obviously to do with consent, and how it affects the privacy.

    Here's a good explanation of what I found.  It talks to how some states require two-party consent vs. one-party consent.

    "Everything comes back to state law. The United States has a federal law regarding filming people without their consent, but it’s a little more complex than just yes or no. Things get even more complicated when it’s a car owned and operated by a private citizen. Gargac told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he doesn’t consider people riding in another person’s car a private place — because it isn’t their property.

    “I have sex in my bedroom,” Gargac said. “I don’t have sex in strangers’ cars. Because I have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the bedroom in my own house. I don’t have that in a stranger’s car.”

    Missouri, where Gargac lives, operates on one-...

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    The answer depends on the state actually.  This is obviously to do with consent, and how it affects the privacy.

    Here's a good explanation of what I found.  It talks to how some states require two-party consent vs. one-party consent.

    "Everything comes back to state law. The United States has a federal law regarding filming people without their consent, but it’s a little more complex than just yes or no. Things get even more complicated when it’s a car owned and operated by a private citizen. Gargac told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that he doesn’t consider people riding in another person’s car a private place — because it isn’t their property.

    “I have sex in my bedroom,” Gargac said. “I don’t have sex in strangers’ cars. Because I have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the bedroom in my own house. I don’t have that in a stranger’s car.”

    Missouri, where Gargac lives, operates on one-party consent laws, which state people “can record a phone call or conversation so long as you are a party to the conversation,” according to the Digital Media Law Project. Thirty-nine other states also have one-party consent laws regarding such recording activities.

    Considering the conversation took place in Gargac’s car, and therefore in his vicinity, he is a member of the party. Since he consented to the video, it’s fine to record and stream, even if his passengers are unaware. California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington abide by two-party consent laws, which means that both parties must agree to being recorded. (source)"

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    AngieKM169
    Rider
     3 months ago

    Great thread.

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    ChristianPerea
    113 Driver
     7 months ago

    You have a right to refuse to be recorded. I have a right to refuse you service. 

    Dashcams offer us evidence in case of an accident or a false report from a rider. Although I'm sure you are a nice person, I personally would not feel comfortable turning off my dashcam and recorder to give you a ride because in this instance, if ANYTHING does happen it would look EXTRA suspicious because I turned my dashcam off; which to a jury may look like I intended to commit a crime (regardless of whether I did or not).

    Depending on the driver, and how you ask, I think most drivers would still give you a ride. 

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      Driver1
      Driver
       2 weeks ago  (edited 2 weeks ago)

      Yes, this has been the first thingI I purchased since I became a driver one that has an SD Card and I even rigged a land based camera to record directly to the net using an online account. This way if a criminal grabs what he thinks is the camera containi video evidence via an onboard card containing evidence of a crime he/she committed in the vehicle by him/her they won’t be able to get their hands on the evidence against them if it streamed to the cloud. 


      In the event someone asks not to be recorded the answer will always be YES! Although this has never been asked in over 2,700 rides with Uber and Lyft. If the occasion ever arises in the future or  If this ever is requested by a rider the answer  will be “of course I will stop recording  you” (as I pull over to a safe public  location. “At this point i will leave no option for them to stay. They mist exit immediately preferably in a safe place, i would grab my cell phone and Car keys...

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      Yes, this has been the first thingI I purchased since I became a driver one that has an SD Card and I even rigged a land based camera to record directly to the net using an online account. This way if a criminal grabs what he thinks is the camera containi video evidence via an onboard card containing evidence of a crime he/she committed in the vehicle by him/her they won’t be able to get their hands on the evidence against them if it streamed to the cloud. 


      In the event someone asks not to be recorded the answer will always be YES! Although this has never been asked in over 2,700 rides with Uber and Lyft. If the occasion ever arises in the future or  If this ever is requested by a rider the answer  will be “of course I will stop recording  you” (as I pull over to a safe public  location. “At this point i will leave no option for them to stay. They mist exit immediately preferably in a safe place, i would grab my cell phone and Car keys leave   and call 911 . With police on the way and me safely out of the vehicle  any potentially dangerous situation can be aliviiated.

      Anyone who objects to be filmed in my car would be regarded by me as extremely dangerous and to be treated as if they are a serial killer with intention to abduct, etc. believe me its happened to ride share drivers before. ( https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/uber-driver-found-dead-after-missing-for-8-weeks-2nd-rideshare-driver-found-dead-in-same-region-within-week.amp


      (: https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=TlykXOC6K4metAXtz6PwAw&q=uber+driver+found+mirdered&oq=uber+driver+found+mirdered&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.3..33i160.2448.11335..12341...1.0..0.199.2734.17j9......0....1.......8..35i39j46j0i131j46i131j0j0i3j33i22i29i30j0i22i30.E5rEaOlk0WY). Reported to the ride share company as someone who made me feel very uncomfortable.  After all what do they have to hide?  Everything!!!


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    DDominico69
    156 Driver
     7 months ago

    You can ask, but I don't think you can force them to shut it off.  As you mentioned, the car is their private property, so it's like being in theiri home.  

    However, I am sure you have the right to NOT take the ride.  No, I am not trying to be mean.  It's just about coming to an agreement between you and the driver.

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    EmanuelClarke
     4 months ago

    I am a fellow Uber and Lyft driver myself and I had an incident with a group of intoxicated passengers that could have cost me my privileges on Uber. The reason I installed the dash cam is because if an incident comes up I don't want there to be a misunderstanding over what actually happened. Some people actually file false complaints to the Rideshare company when you tell them no and actually enforced policy. I have to tell you that most of my passengers have been very accepting and supportive of me and are glad that I have security. I have posted signs warning people that audio and video recording may be in progress in this vehicle. I also will answer questions about the surveillance and inform them of why I have it and what it's used for. I would never post any footage on YouTube or any social media. The video is for security only it's not designed to embarrass or bring humiliation to anyone. I'm not trying to embarrass my passengers or create an uncomfortable sit...

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    I am a fellow Uber and Lyft driver myself and I had an incident with a group of intoxicated passengers that could have cost me my privileges on Uber. The reason I installed the dash cam is because if an incident comes up I don't want there to be a misunderstanding over what actually happened. Some people actually file false complaints to the Rideshare company when you tell them no and actually enforced policy. I have to tell you that most of my passengers have been very accepting and supportive of me and are glad that I have security. I have posted signs warning people that audio and video recording may be in progress in this vehicle. I also will answer questions about the surveillance and inform them of why I have it and what it's used for. I would never post any footage on YouTube or any social media. The video is for security only it's not designed to embarrass or bring humiliation to anyone. I'm not trying to embarrass my passengers or create an uncomfortable situation but I have a right to protect my business as any other business owner does. I have four signs  ONE posted at each door. if I think somebody may not understand the signs I will also explain it orally. A Rideshare vehicle is privately owned property not owned by the companies and as the owner of my property I have the right to install and use security measures provided I'm not breaking any laws doing it.


    if somebody doesn't consent to audio or video recording or use of a dash cam. They have a right not to consent to your conversation however your vehicle is private property. You have a right to end their trip in a safe location early if they don't consent. It's no different than going to the airport and wanting to get on an airplane without going through security. You have an absolute right to refuse the passengers screening but they have an absolute right not to allow you to board that aircraft or remain on Airport property.


    if you go to any concert venue or any other place that has metal detectors or bag checks and you don't consent to it. They have a right to refuse you admission. 


    A Rideshare driver owns the vehicle that they are using and as long as the security they are doing is lawful. The driver is within his or her right to refuse service for failure to comply with security policies. When you're doing ride-sharing you're out there by yourself and you never know who you're picking up. The sad part is the vast majority of people you serve aren't the ones you have to worry about. It's less than 5% but only one of them can cost you a contract if they make a false allegation to Uber or Lyft or any of the other providers.







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    wraiththe
    172 Driver
     7 months ago  (edited 7 months ago)

    You may ask.  I may have you recorded asking and comply.  Most likely I would turn the inside camera away if you asked and more likely if there was daylight.d  Especially if you were talking about sensitve business.   Most cameras loop and record over each segment once the drive is full... unless tagged.  Occasionally some people can get toxic and aggresive or even try to grope the driver.  If there are cameras inside, it is for our protection.  Just to be clear... what you are asking us is to lower our defenses and any kind of passive security and trust that you wont be agressive, try to sexually assault, hurt, or falsely accuse us, vandalize our cars, break the law, be verbally abusive, or lie about what was said.  I would feel more comfortable with a driver that has a camera rather than a weapon for their protection.  

    Still, depending on the situation, I think most of us would consider complying.

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    Bigfrank
    316 Driver Driver Rider
     7 months ago

    Common sense is not so common. That's my answer for your stupid question

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    elyse
     7 months ago

    You should not be worried about being recorded, if you are not doing anything wrong. Most drivers state it's for their safety purposes (as some have already mentioned here) so you can bet that the recording will not go anywhere. I know in the past there have been stories.. but I think that is rare. 

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    AliCommons
    Rider
     7 months ago

    It is true that in a private place like someone else's car, you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy.  This means the driver can record you.

    With that said, I don't think it matters whether you are in private or public places when it comes to recording your private conversations.  In most states, the recoding party needs to have some kind of consent.  I think.  I am not lawyer.

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      mboscorelli
      251 Rider
       7 months ago

      Right.  The whole wiretap statute.  Though I believe that only stands true if the party has a legitimate expectation of privacy. In a public place, people usually don't.  However, in some one else's car?  

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    Raech_86
     2 months ago

    Ya get OUT THE PERSON CAR.